What do you think of Brock?

[texaslonghorn]

Hey guys (and girls)! Well, I was on Bulbapedia the other day since I can't get the show over here, and was reading about Brock. I read that many in the pokemon fandom now consider him an outgrown character, and that (like Misty, unfortunately, and May) they think he should be taken out and replaced. I was wondering what y'all thought of this, since I kind of considered him a staple character after having been on for so many years (minus the OI arc, of course).

I'd like to add that I'm not a huge Brock fan or anything, but was just surprised to read that some people are seriously considering pulling him off the show.

[pokeria1]

Well, I figured that he should have been pulled from the show. It's not because I've outgrown him, it's more the fact that he really hasn't done much with his goal, if any at all. If the writers aren't even going to try and have Brock try and accomplish his goal, his mission, then there really isn't a point in keeping him on. The same goes for Ash, seeing how it's been thirteen years and we still haven't even gotten a true definition on what a Pokemon Master is.

Another very major reason why I feel that he should be kicked off the show is because of one of his running jokes. For the longest time now, we heterosexual males have been labelled with a very bad name all thanks to characters who hit on every woman they meet, sleep around with every woman, or basically treat all females as being nothing more than a piece of meat to toss around. We've had it with Glenn Quagmire from Family Guy, we've had it with Charlie Harper from Two and a Half Men (heck, that entire show is about that issue), we've had it with Gaston from Beauty and the Beast, we've had it with Master Roshi, Chibi Krillin, Oolong, and Yamcha in Dragon Ball/Z/GT, and we've now had it with Brock from Pokemon. What's even worse is that the mass media always makes it out to be that we HAVE to act like that if we are truly heterosexual, because if we don't, then we must be Homosexual (even IF we never even crushed on a person of the same sex even once). It really angers me whenever we have to be subjected to this viewpoint. Heck, on BMGf, when I was sent to the Hall of Shame after Scott85 basically mocked Misty for fearing bugs, some of the members even implied I was gay, despite my being heterosexual and not gay. A similar implication was also made by Crystal Clair when I stated that I hated pornography. So Brock's behavior and/or running joke is also a major reason why I want him off the show, and it being the biggest reason. Besides, that joke wasn't really funny, anyways, even WHEN I was a kid.

[oldpokeshipper]

I'll have to disagree with that. Brock provides comic relief and he's always there to help Ash and the rest of the gang. He is basically a very good secondary character. Removing him would be a nail to the coffin for pokemon.

The only thing however, that I do not like about him is perhaps his perviness. That's just about the only thing that's annoying in that character- his constant quest to get a girl. But besides of that, I really do not see anything wrong with him.

[pokeria1]

Jan 16, 2010 20:38:17 GMT -5 oldpokeshipper said:

I'll have to disagree with that. Brock provides comic relief and he's always there to help Ash and the rest of the gang. He is basically a very good secondary character. Removing him would be a nail to the coffin for pokemon.

Hey, I won't mind his cooking and cleaning for them if they truly were incapable of doing that. However, Ash and co. were already shown to be perfectly capable of doing most of that stuff. I mean, we've had the entire Orange Islands saga where they did quite a good job taking care of themselves in spite of Brock not being around, and even before they met Brock, they had done quite well in terms of fending for themselves in terms of meals, at least (since it was heavily implied that their travel through Viridian Forest to Pewter Gym lasted exactly 13 days (Ash said that it's been two weeks since he got pikachu.). I also don't mind Brock episodes for the most part, as long as they don't try and contradict past events on a very serious level. One thing I hated about the episodes Sick Daze, the episode where Ash caught Taillow, and Doc Brock is how they directly contradicted canon just to make an excuse for Brock to stay (or in the case of the Taillow episode, join the group.). With Sick Daze, they basically forgot all about how Ash and Misty did quite well in getting food without Brock being around (in Misty's case, she even cooked something flawlessly. Granted, it was Salveyo Weed, but still, if she was truly a very bad cook as implied in that episode, she definitely would not have even been able to cook it into a cure [if anything, the result would be a poison.].). The Taillow episode was no different, as despite Ash's experience in the Orange Islands, he still ended up not being able to cook something, which makes their even managing to survive the OI without Brock an enigma. Doc Brock really takes the cake since, despite his experience with Pikachu getting sick with a cold, oh, I don't know, two-to-three times, he still didn't seem to even know what was happening with Pachirisu?! With Dawn, I can understand, since that's the first time that her pokemon got sick. However, Ash had similar experiences with Pikachu, and Pachirisu already has similar organs to it anyhow (the electricity-generating cheeks), so he should at least suspect what is going on with Pachirisu.

The only thing however, that I do not like about him is perhaps his perviness. That's just about the only thing that's annoying in that character- his constant quest to get a girl. But besides of that, I really do not see anything wrong with him.

I agree with you on that. As a matter of fact, that part is the primary reason why I want him ousted. I mean, aside from the fact that the gag is completely annoying, it's also in very bad taste. What's even worse is that the target age group will most likely emulate Brock when they get older. Monkey see, Monkey do, after all. I mean, I had a cousin who mimicked a very dirty, throwaway line from one of the Pointdexter movies (I'll give you a hint: "Hey Pointdexter, do you wanna ****?), and she once mimicked the line with her mother, my ex-aunt, in the car (she and my uncle are divorced, with the latter remarrying, hence why I called her my ex-aunt.), and, long story short, she got in big trouble for it. Since Brock is supposed to be the more responsible character, as well as one of the good guys, his acting like that will also end up causing kids to think that what he's doing is actually a good deed when it's actually not. I mean, I have heard of people saying they're doing drugs or being promiscuous because "their favorite actor is doing it/favorite author is doing it, so therefore I should do it as well." which is apparently a very common excuse seeing how it was included as one of the myths/facts statements in my textbook. Actually, it was because of that textbook that I learned of that excuse. I've also heard that premarital sex is apparently increasing more today because of the overabundance of premarital sex scenes in tv/movies currently. Honestly, I feel it would be for the target audience's own good if he was removed from the show. Besides, we Heterosexual males have been treated like scumbags recently, acting as though we should basically "play with every girl until we get bored with the previous girl," if you catch my drift. I mean, James Bond, Austin Powers, Glenn Quagmire, Master Roshi, Yamcha, Krillin (as a kid, anyways), Charlie Harper, Gaston, Brody Mitchum, all of those guys and their actions, we heterosexual males are expected to act exactly like them in order to be considered heterosexual. Girls are also expected to act like complete bimboes now and these days and sleep around with guys to even prove that they are what a girl is, both of those aspects I want to see destroyed. Honestly, you know what it's like when you don't want to basically use women as sexual tools for your own enjoyment, but society constantly tries to drive it into your head in a long battle of wills to basically tell you that you must act like that or otherwise, people will think you are homosexual, even when you aren't? On BMGf, I had been to the Hall of Shame to defend Misty from Scott85, and one person, when mentioning my wanting to make the opposite sex absolutely equal (as in, not treat the other as tools, period), asked if I was gay. A fellow friend on Pokecommunity, Crystal Clair, asked a similar question when I mentioned that I objected to pornography. I mean, sure, I'm sexually attracted to the opposite sex, but that doesn't mean that I have to act on those desires. I'm gonna have to blame the mass media for that belief that we must act on our primal sex instincts (be it reading porno or actually doing the real thing), especially seeing that Two and a Half men had a running joke that Alan Harper, due to his utter rotten luck with women, must be gay. They even did an episode that acted as nothing more than an implication that he was gay, only for an actual gay man that he met at a single parent group to say to him that [Alan] "Definitely wasn't gay."

Sorry for the long rant, but this issue really bothers me. I'm still a virgin, BTW (I'd rather wait until marriage to have sex with a woman, as commanded by my religion), but people, society as a whole, and the mass media are currently insinuating that we must act like this.

[oldpokeshipper]

Peer pressure. Yeah, I really hate it too but what can you do? I just try to limit my interactions with such trash to minimum. Try to find yourself a company of better people.

[pokeria1]

Jan 17, 2010 9:41:06 GMT -5 oldpokeshipper said:

Peer pressure. Yeah, I really hate it too but what can you do? I just try to limit my interactions with such trash to minimum. Try to find yourself a company of better people.

I tried doing that by removing our cable provider (or at least, that was a consequence) and avoiding the channel that Two and a Half men was on entirely. As for trying to find myself a company of better people, I did on the internet (I'm also trying to get as many of my fellow friends and comrades of the Misty fanbase to leave BMGf with me, as well, so as to not have to endure the horrible treatment of us anymore.). I don't have to worry about real life, since none of the people act like what they do on TV or on the net. I can't just abandon Crystal Clair, since she is a fellow comrade in arms in regards to the Misty fanbase, had been picked on by Cybercubed, just as I have been, and, more importantly, we are both autistic (or at least have similar conditions, as she's aspergers syndrome, and I'm high functioning Autistic.) Some of my female friends joined the cheerleading squad, but they never acted like the stereotypical cheerleaders that plague tv. Actually, they also got into activities that involved the academic mind because of their high proficiency in regards to their intellect, so I respect them dearly for that.

Despite all that, I still think of them due solely to the fact that they are in my memories, something that I cannot just get rid of, even if I wanted to.

[oldpokeshipper]

Yeah, people stay in memories for a very long time and I hate that. The hardest thing is to forget someone you like, let alone love. That's why I'm largely a loner in real life.

[nickstr]

Removing Misty was a nail in the coffin too and kind of brings up another point. Brock was thought of as useless during the time period of Johto and yet he got to stay while Misty got the boot. Normally I don't think of it this way but that whole decision and the fact that the girls after her were made to be disposable SCREAMS sexism. Normally I am not one to say this but I do agree on that point.

[pokeria1]

Jan 21, 2010 23:20:22 GMT -5 nickstr said:

Removing Misty was a nail in the coffin too and kind of brings up another point. Brock was thought of as useless during the time period of Johto and yet he got to stay while Misty got the boot. Normally I don't think of it this way but that whole decision and the fact that the girls after her were made to be disposable SCREAMS sexism. Normally I am not one to say this but I do agree on that point.

Yeah, I agree. Sexism is most likely the reason, especially considering how they are barely even focusing on his breeding goal to the extent that it almost seems as though he isn't following it at all. I sincerely doubt that the fact that Tracey, his replacement, received poor response during OI was the reason at all, seeing how they wouldn't have even dared replace Misty if that was the case (If they fear replacing Brock out of backlash, they would also fear replacing any of their characters out of backlash as well.)

There's also another notable thing to mention. Ok, in GCYL, both Brock and Misty had to leave in order to take care of something at their gym. In Misty's Chronicle's episode: Cerulean Blues, she had to either run the gym or, due to the newly-enstated zero tolerance policy after closing four gyms in a week, her gym is wiped off of the map courtesy of the PIA. In the same episode, they also mentioned that in addition to the Gym Leader not being present resulting in the Gym being shut down, the PIA also shuts down any Gyms that are unclean, unsafe, and uncool.

Brock's episode, however, had him doing something minor such as family issues about what to do with the Gym. I also noticed that the PIA apparently allowed Pewter Gym to continue to exist despite the fact that not only was Lola a terrible Gym Leader (so terrible that even Misty's sister's current attempts at running the gym actually seemed decent.), but the Gym itself after Lola had become the Gym Leader already broke two of the three factors (It was unsafe and uncool, as several Rock Pokemon were nearly killed due to Lola's stupid decision to add in a pool in their training grounds, and the horrible decorations, respectively.), and even without a zero-tolerance policy, that simply would not even allow the Gym to continue to be run (1/3 right is simply not a good score, period.). If this was Giovanni, I could understand, seeing how he'd most likely bribe the PIA inspectors. But I honestly don't see how the gym would survive that.

Not to mention that Pewter Gym, despite being given to someone who was supposed to be more competent as a Gym Leader than both his parents, had gotten even worse thanks to Lola and in part, him as well. Despite Lola promising Brock that she won't have the Gym painted again, when Brock returned, the Gym was decorated in even worse paint/decorations than before. It gets even better: She even hired painters to do it (shady painters, if I might add), and she accepts plane tickets from them to go on a getaway trip with Flint. Turns out these "painters" are actually planning on trying to commit burglary and steal the Gym's Pokemon. Forrest, due to his being the Gym Leader, could have stopped his mom, and as much as I don't like this option, even could have kicked his mom out in order to stop her from tarnishing the Gym even more than before. He didn't even bother trying to fight against the "Gym Challengers."

From the data that I can gather, Pewter Gym, thanks to Lola's takeover of the Gym, was actually in an even WORSE position than Cerulean Gym, and that's saying a lot. If anyone should have had to stay at the gym because of it being beyond redemption without them, it should have been Brock.

[oldpokeshipper]

Jan 21, 2010 23:20:22 GMT -5 nickstr said:

Removing Misty was a nail in the coffin too and kind of brings up another point. Brock was thought of as useless during the time period of Johto and yet he got to stay while Misty got the boot. Normally I don't think of it this way but that whole decision and the fact that the girls after her were made to be disposable SCREAMS sexism. Normally I am not one to say this but I do agree on that point.

I partly agree with you. Partly because Brock was also supposed to be removed by the writers. The first attempt being Orange Islands, of course. So that would balance things out in terms of male/female removal ratio.

However, there is something suspicious about the ever changing female cast. Moreover, each following girl is starting to look prettier than the previous one (By the standards of the majority of the fanbase anyways.).

I think the writers are panicly afraid to lose the show and are trying to save it using whatever methods necessary.

[pokeria1]

I heard of a very similar rumor in regards to the show "West Wing" as well as "Heroes."

In West Wing, during the last few episodes of the Series, Josh and Donna ended up sleeping together two times in one episode. Some people speculated that this was a last attempt at getting a ratings boost.

In Heroes, there have been rumors about Claire Bennet being made into a lesbian in Season 4, Volume 5: Redemption, despite her having absolutely no attractions to girls at all, as well as having some attraction to guys.

[oldpokeshipper]

I know it's been a while but I wanted to share with you some of my thoughts on Brock and the entire show as a whole.

Okey let's see. Pokemon began in Japan in 1997 with the first episode being aired on the 1st of April. That's over 13 years ago. Originaly, the three main characters were aged 10, 15 and 12* ( Ash, Brock, Misty*) and the series was not supposed to run for more than half a year or 82 episodes.

It all comes down to time. The series is now HUGE and it's getting really really old. It has been now aired for longer than dragon ball anime during its days. So, time is working againts the makers. All of the three main characters should be older than 20 years by now, with Brock being 3 years away from his 30th birthday.

A lot of fans are simply leaving the series and this is where my conclusion comes. The reason why they keep changing the female cast is because they want to attract new fans to the anime. Every series, a new girl comes in and with her a boatload of new followers. Naturally there are some people that quit, but the quitters-newcomers ratio is more or less ballanced.

I think it could be a veeery long time before we see the end of Pokemon anime.

[pokeria1]

Well, one good thing is that there is the possibility that Brock is going to be removed (A recent newsflash mentioned that Brock's getting a new goal.). However, it is not confirmed yet if he actually is leaving or if he just is going to have a new goal in Sinnoh. On the other hand, a recent trailer implies that its the former.

[Themistmermaid]

I like Brock, just not Bill Rogers as Brock I think that's why I didn't like him much in BF or DP.

I can't believe they got rid of him AGAIN just to replace him with someone similar to him.